What if we retcon Shine to be just a different class - a fighter specializing in ranged attacks?
I could still start with thievery (and stealth). So this would be the same “person” with the same ancestry, same background, alignment, etc. just different class. The ranged combat might help us since we have two front line melee characters and this character would certainly excel at that.
The only downside is that she would have is no ability to act as the face. But right now I feel like Shine in her rogue incarnation is just so-so in that role. Going with Anna the sorcerer would definitely give us good diplomacy skills. So I am not sure.
I think it really comes down to this: what role is it you would like to play in the group?
For example, Valk is primarily a defender who will try to mitigate damage taken by others around him as well as being durable himself, and he’ll also provide some utility magic through his Archetype; outside of combat, he will be a good source of magical and mundane knowledge as well as crafting items the party needs. Huulm is a striker who will combine high mobility with good damage and durability; out of combat, he will excel at traversing challenging terrain (sorry, I forget what your other skill focuses were XD). Rockie will be a healer who can also provide some powerful AoE damage and utility magic; outside of combat, he will provide healing so we are consistently at full health going into each encounter as well as offering focused knowledge on several topics.
We’ll all have other parts to play as well, but these are (as I see them) the main roles each character will fill. Note that none of us have fully come into our roles just yet. We’ve got a limited set of abilities that will grow as we level, and usually a character really has the core abilities of their chosen role around lv6.
As far as choosing a character with a clearly defined role goes the draconic sorcerer Anna seems like a winner to me given the need to have a character with good social skills and high dc arcane spells for aoe damage.
Another good choice feels like the ranged fighter variant of Shine since we don’t currently have anyone who can hit flying targets and a ranged striker would also be able to contribute to fights in dungeons without getting in the way of Huulm and Valk.
Just as important I feel to maintain interest in the campaign over the long term is trying to figure out what really motivates this character. Who they are, and what they want but I reckon that is something I will have to work out for myself.
Like I said before, go with the one that you think will interest you more long term. At this point I have the three Skill increases that I can go thievery if you want to go with Anna or I can go Diplomacy if you want to rework Shine. The important thing is go with a character you want to play long term. As Rando mentioned we will not be gimped as a group if we are missing certain skills. It just means we have to deal with problems given the skills we have.
For example, if no one takes thievery, Lets say Vulk has the Mage hand cantrip. He could use that to open doors, chests or set off traps from a distance. If no one has Diplomacy and we need help from the towns people, we could always hire someone from the town to act as our representative to arrange for things. If we need help tracking something, we can always hire a tracker to go with us. Just things like that. Lets face it the module was designed for 4 to 6 players. We only have 4. So we are starting at a disadvantage. Which is likely why we are moving slowly with about 2.5 encounters a play session right now. That will get a bit better as we level.
But in the end it is about each of us having fun. That is what is going to keep us coming back for the next play session.
So after a couple more changes, here is what I have for Anna:
Ancestry: Human (no longer Tian-Dan because I realized that eastern dragons don’t have wings)
Background: Dragon Scholar (from the AoA backgrounds)
Class: Sorcerer with Draconic (Silver) Bloodline
Alignment: Lawful Good
I’m not planning to level Thievery up but I will be taking the Cooperative Nature ancestry feat at level 1 and Cooperative Soul at level 9 so she can aid Rockie with thievery - perhaps hold a light and pass him the thieves tools (or at least pass him the thieves tools, as I think Rockie may have darkvision). I think these feats would also be really cool with aiding in diplomacy/intimidation/deception checks when somebody else is speaking in a language she can’t understand.
Reminder to myself to award XP for last encounter(s).
Updated new map (of Citadel Altaerin Vaults) with the appropriate pushpins for story/data elements. Updated new map and pre-placed encounters according to the module text, not the placement the Fantasy Grounds module had.
Updated a number of text links to pre-formatted and written information that can be shared with the party as apppropriate, instead of having to search though to find what to say.
WIP: updating the descriptive text boxes that are shared with the players when entering new rooms/encounters to actually reflect what’s going on.
The last one is a bit of a pain. The map of the vaults as shipped in the module (and as shipped with the FG version of the module) has the map rotated 90 degrees to the left, so the map could fit on an appropriately sized page of the module. However, in doing so, they rotated the cartouche (the N-S-E-W directional arrow indicator thingie) 90 degrees as well. The goblin map I made as a handout is indicting true north as in the location where the “MONSTRS” are and where the party entered the Vaults via a secret door in the south. The map in the module/FG however has that as east and west respectively. Even taking into account that 90 degree rotation, some of the descriptions of rooms are talking about doors and room items in cardinal directions that don’t match up with anything that’s actually on the map.
In other news, I downloaded and read the Extinction Curse Players Guide for the upcoming adventure path and was um suitably unimpressed.
Ah, so that’s what was going on when I was trying to ask them about the south (corridors to the “ded”) and east (broken door) and things got all confused. So the corridors are actually east and the broken door is north? Maybe we can retcon that bit of the conversation. Is the killer doll to the north then?
As far as APs, I’m looking forward to the detective one starting later this year.
I’m matching my descriptions to the maps from the module and FG and the new one I made, and ignoring the text - hence why I am rewriting the textboxes.
So when the Charau-ka said east, then mean’t actual east on the map we are currently playing on. East is the broken door. East is the “dolly”. They shrugged when you asked about south.
The goblins have no conception of any of the cardinal directions nor do they really care, so Chief Helba drew the map with the secret entrance into the vaults- which you entered from - being on the bottom (south) of her map but that’s actual cardinal direction west.
And yeah, getting the APG along with the Agents of Edgewatch in July is going to be neat. Though they did state this in a sidebar from the Extinction Curse Players Guide:
ADVENTURES IN THE STARSTONE ISLES
In many ways, the Extinction Curse Adventure Path is a counterpoint to the upcoming Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path. Extinction Curse takes place around the Isle of Erran and the Isle of Kortos (and some startlingly far-flung locales), but it doesn’t focus on Absalom at all. In fact, heroes in Extinction Curse might never actually set foot in the metropolis, except perhaps for quick vignettes if the heroes need to shop for expensive gear or acquire powerful magic.
The Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path is, in many ways, the opposite: its action takes place within Absalom right from the beginning, and the surrounding settlements don’t play much into its unfolding events. The two Adventure Paths also contrast in some key character assumptions: heroes in Extinction Curse are more likely chaotic, while those in Agents of Edgewatch are probably lawful.
The upcoming Absalom, City of Lost Omens is useful for learning about the city itself, but the book contains information and adventure hooks for the surrounding area as well, so it makes a good resource for Extinction Curse.
So up is down now, left is right? Gotta teach these uneducated creatures some direction sense.
In terms of Huulm, yeah I’m primarily mobile dps with some durability and I planned on taking Athletics and Stealth to Legendary and Acrobatics to Master. I was mainly taking Athletics to Legendary to get Cloud Jump, but that would be lvl 15 and after and I wouldn’t be getting Stealth to Legendary until real late at lvl 17. I don’t know if I even need to take Stealth that far and would I even evre get high enough level to get Cloud Jump? I could rethink skills to rank up some other stuff that might be more helpful. I have no crafting skills to speak of and probably won’t train any as I won’t be raising Intelligence ever. I will be training out of at least one or two skills when there is time for it and training some other skills. So my skills are up in the air a bit at this point. I’ll get Athletics and Acrobatics to Expert and go from there.
And just as a reminder for everyone, I’ll be training up Arcana (needed for my archetype feats), Crafting (started with being able to repair my own shield, and it fits decently with the archetype), and Society (knowing how people, and especially groups of people, work can offer some more satisfying vengeance options than just smashing them). I’ll try to slowly get Trained in all of the INT skills over time, too.
Oooh, I was wrong. From what I can figure of the text it’s indicating that you entered the secret door into the vaults from the North! Which would make Goblin “Hom” to the east, “Monstr” to the south, and “Ded” to the west. So Chief Helba’s map inverted. /le-sigh
Anyway, rewriting…
[Edit] Because of the way Fantasy Grounds handles maps (images) along with masks and token management, I can edit the map in Campaign Cartographer, import/export from Photoshop, and overwrite the existing map in the FG campaign folder, and the mask, grid, and tokens are kept intact. Yay.
Wowowow that was a lot of fun last night! It felt like everyone was filling a role and just as importantly everyone’s dice were on fire I think I can confidently say that my character conundrum has been resolved.
One quick question. I have a spare skill available and I’d originally planned to take thievery and use that along with my Cooperative Nature feat to aid Rockie if the need arises. But Rando also mentioned to me that society might be good during downtime activities especially if Valk will be crafting instead. Or perhaps there is a more suitable use for it. Anna will mostly be focusing her points into Performance (with the impressive display feat for make an impression), Intimidation (to bend the followers of evil into submission), and Dragon Lore (Enix taught her a lot about dragons but he also said a lot of things that didn’t make sense to Anna at the time so that skill will evolve over time as she begins to understand what he really meant. FWIW, I renamed “Dragon Scholar” to “Dragon Friend” - mechanically the same but just a different RP flavor). Also plan to add a point or two to Acrobatics for aerial maneuvers.
Administering, repairing, and upgrading Citadel Altaerin is couched in terms that seem it’s all optional. However, it does say that in the sixth and final module the state that Citadel Altaerin is in is going to matter.
How the downtime activities breakdown via steps:
Administer; Society check; result of check determines how long all other Citadel operations run smoothly and how long you have before you have to make an other Administer check
Organize Labor; Deception/Diplomacy/Intimidate check; success of check means workers stay on task for the entire duration of a repair/upgrade activity; failure (especially with Deception/Intimidate) is bad
Repair Activities; Crafting check; also may require Specialty Crafting (stonemasonry) or Specialty Crafting (woodworking), or hiring an appropriate expert; result of check works like crafting and determines how many days of success and cost of success you get towards the activity; some repairs gated behind Crafitng (expert) requirement
Upgrade Activities; Crafting check as well as secondary skill appropriate to upgrade required (i.e. Medicine required for Infirmary upgrade); requires skilled labor instead of normal labor (5x cost) obtained via Organize Labor; all gated behind Crafting (master) requirement
So… Crafting is the big roadblock. You can get away with someone with a decent Society role Administering for weeks or even an entire month on a success. And organizing labor is also a onetime success required for the appropriate Cha-based skill. Repairing/Upgrading is the big time/gold sink, with essentially the crafter “making” the Citadel instead of something useful for the party to use during the adventure. Note a lot of the stuff is gated behind Crafitng (expert), and Crafting (master) requirements, so we have time.
I am rethinking of few things with Huulm at the moment. I could still do Thievery up some to help out with that as I will be primarily Dex based so I will get some decent returns on Thievery. But I am still going to stay a Monk (sorry Ocelot couldn’t resist teehee ).
I think I am going to go with the Stand Still monk feat for an opportunity attack thingee. As I see it, I am using two feats to get the fighter opportunity attack one of those two feats, the Fighter Dedication archetype, is pretty mush useless other than using it to get to the fighter opportunity attack feat. Would it be better just to skip the Fighter Dedication and just get Stand Still. This would free up a feat slot for me to get Stunning Fist right now. From what I gather the fighter attack of opportunity(AoO) triggers on movement, manipulation action, ranged attack and leaving a square during movement action (which is a bit confusing to me, this just feels like an addendum to triggering on a move action). Stand Still only triggers on movement and the leaving a square during movement action thing. If I am interpreting things correctly, Stand Still also counts towards MAP penalty.
Fighter Dedication + Opportunist
PROS: additional conditions to allow for AoO vs. Stand Still. AoO from Opportunist is independent of MAP penalties. CONS:: I am in essence sacrificing a feat to get opportunist as the Fighter Dedication feat really does nothing for me other than a gateway to Opportunist. Also, this sets back my Monk feat acquisition by 2 levels pretty mush as I take Fighter Dedication at lvl 2 and instead of getting a lvl 4 Monk feat at lvl 4 I instead get the Opportunist feat and then at lvl 6 I get back to Monk feats with the lvl 4 feat Wholeness of Body.
Stand Still
PROS: Frees up a class feat slot from not having to take the Fighter Dedication feat.
CONS: Fewer conditions to allow for use of AoO vs. Opportunist. Appears to count towards MAP penalties.
I was starting to rethink getting Fighter Dedication and Opportunist, but I admit it was mainly because I was toying around with the idea of taking the Ranger Animal Companion feat to have one of the warg pups as an animal companion. I love dogs and wolves are my real world spirit wild animal. But I am stepping back and looking at what is best for the party and I don’t think missing out on any kind of opportunity attack setup is better than having a warg companion that I will never be able make stronger through extra Ranger feats I would never take. It was more just a personal indulgence to have a warg companion which I thought would be cool. After getting over my warg companion fetish, I was looking at Stand Still once Cortillaen reminded mentioned it and starting to think that it would better to get that and free up a feat slot. Then I started overthinking things I think and my thought was that Opportunist would give too many chances for AoO and limit using AoO which is a dumb thought because more opportunities for an AoO is not a negative. So now I am back towards leaning more towards Fighter Dedication + Opportunist. So I am wondering, is an AoO a reaction and can only be used once per round? If yes than this puts Stand Still a bit more on par Opportunist as only one reaction per round would make me be much more pickier and choosier about when I use that AoO. If no, AoO is not restricted to once per round then Opportunist becomes the obvious choice. Anyone have any thoughts on this? At this point I am probably sticking with Fighter Dedication and Opportunist unless anyone has anyone has any better ideas regarding Huulm and AoO’s.
If I had known there wer gonna be warg pups to have early as animal companions. Rando, can I switch to a Ranger now?
I’d love to see a ranger in action. My first reaction upon seeing them in the CRB was the same are pretty much all game systems since AD&D; i.e. why is this a separate class and still a thing? Is it different enough from a fighter with the appropriate background/skills? Or a rogue with the appropriate skills? Or a fighter/druid?
Just glancing over the feats available to them we’ve got all sorts of options for the ranger that look nice in theory: ranged, dual melee, animal companions. The only things missing are two-handed weapon fighting (covered by the barbarian and fighter) and spellcasting (though a spellcasting Ranger variant - maybe in the form of an archetype - is coming in the APG.)
I’d love to see one in action.
As for your monk dilemna… We are starting to get into encounters with “intelligent” humanoids more as well as encounters with multiple opponents; stuff we didn’t see on the first floor of the castle. Moving forward we are going to see more of that and casters are going to start showing up as well. A’soO are going to become more useful. (Try sounding out A’soO out-loud without giggling…)
Yeah the fighter Dedication is doing nothing for you besides giving you training in a skill. My gut reaction is the monk Stand Still feat looks way more worth it. Keeping fighter dedication gives you access to the fighter feat list, but the monk list is pretty awesome as is. Sure Combat Reflexes is great for fighters, but as a lvl 10 feat you’ll only be able to grab it at lvl 20 with Dedication! The fighter AoO will work against casters to though, not just movement. Ugh, decisions!
Oh that’s okay! I totally understand your wanting to try a different class and I will absolutely support whatever class you settle on!!
It’s not my decision to make but it would be super awesome if either Huulm or Valk could pick up an AoO. Would make those baddies think twice about bum rushing our casters. But that’s okay if not because Anna will claw out their eyes if they get too close!
I think I can confidently say that my character conundrum has been resolved.
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