Also, I’m not dying to a couple of no good underground pheasants that were obviously trying to loot the place because how else would they have been able to get through a closed door?
um Just a note… Ummm… well I um decided to bite the bullet and um well updated my um gaming machine to ummm Windows 10 today… So ummmm I might be a bit late as I try desperately to reinstall Fantasy Grounds and Discord…in time for the ummmm game tonight which I ummm totally zoned on until after I ummm formated all my drives…
Mith
Better hurry it along before those puppies get bored waiting for you and run off.
So, the Charau-Ka are knocked out and tied up good now. They said there are more of them (count uncertain), probably on the other side of the east door in our room, and there may be some more of the Boggards as well. The bear is behind the barricaded door to the north. There is a dangerous “little dolly” through the triple doors to the east in the main hall. They had nothing to say about the halls leading south from there. There may also be some more Grauladons (the stink dragon) somewhere; apparently they wrecked the stairs going up to the surface.
Malarunk is the name of their leader, a Charau-Ka warlord or something. He is below somewhere, along with the portal they say they came here through. All of these Charau-Ka and Boggards are part of the Cinderclaw cult who worship Dahak and hope to call Dahak into the world to destroy everything. The cultists are apparently happy to die when that happens.
Man, the worst kind of fanatics.
On the bright side, they shouldn’t mind too much if we put them to destructive use before Dahak comes, right? Valk (by the way, the a is pronounced like in “tall”, not “cat”) does serve the Lady of Vengeance, and what better manner of revenge on those who want to destroy the world than letting their destruction serve us trying to stop them? Good is not Soft, kiddos. If they want to burn the world down, well, Valk says “You first.” 
Huulm: “If they seek destruction we can certainly help them along on that path. Though I’m certain they would be less than thrilled to know it is not to serve their purpose., I also don’t care”
Shine just paces back and forth like a big black cat. You get the feeling that if this conversation with the cultists drags on too much longer she is liable to do something unpredictable…
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So if we bait the bear out, maybe we could leave a trail of frog dude and giant pheasant corpses leading out of the dungeon for the bear to follow. 
I was thinking more of “use the cultist as a distraction while we get in position to strike”. I don’t like the idea of just hoping a big, angry, half-starved bear doesn’t decide to come back down behind us.
Unrelated: we haven’t gotten the Exp for that last encounter yet. I know it’s sorta “ongoing” ; just noting so we remember.
Okay! This is my last proposed character for this campaign!!
Paralictor Valfredo,
Thank you for submitting your report concerning suspected doomsday cultist activity at Citadel Alterien.
Unfortunately, given the ongoing situation with the Glorious Reclamation, I regret to say that I am unable to provide you with any additional support east of the Conerica at this time. Instead, I recommend that you send one of your more capable armigers to ascertain the actual significance of the threat and then report back. You may authorize them to seek allies among the local civilian populace as needed to complete this task.
For the Measure and the Chain,
Master Servanus, Order of the Pyre
Name: Alexandra
Ancestry: Human (Chelaxian), Versatile Heritage
Class: Fighter
Background: Field Medic
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
str 18
dex 10
con 16
int 12
wis 10
cha 12
Class Feats: Power Attack, Hellknight Armiger Dedication
Ancestry Feats: Natural Ambition: Sudden Charge
General Feats: Toughness
Skill Feats: Batte Medicine
Starting Skills: Medicine, Warfare Lore, Athletics, Intimidation, Hell Lore, Crafting, Diplomacy, Society
Languages: Common, Infernal
Alexandra vs the Barbazu
@Cortillaen well good thing I was kidding about the trail of giant peacock corpses. I wasn’t holding any illusions about leading the bear out like ET with a trail of Reese’s Pieces, but it would have been humorous. So if we end up having to fight the bear, is it going to be worse than anything else we have encountered yet?
@ocelot I don;t know about the others, but I’m gonna hold you to it this time 
@Ryukan
Without knowing what Big Bumble actually is, it’s hard to say, but I’m willing to bet it’s more dangerous than that Bugbear we fought (at least I think Rando mentioned it was a Bugbear; the “goblinoid” that almost killed two of us). If it’s a Grizzly, we’ll likely have a rough battle and at least one down, though you know how the dice can be. I assume it won’t be a Cave Bear since that would just wipe us. It could just as easily be something custom for the AP, though. And that’s assuming the description of it being some kind of bear was accurate.
@ocelot
I have to note that this is one character concept I don’t think would be a good fit with the current party. Beyond the fact that it kinda overlaps with what we’ve already got (physical combatant like Huulm and Valk, Medicine and Athletics are already covered, etc), playing a member of the Hellknights is likely to cause issues.
First off, Valk explicitly hates the Hellknights and would have a really hard time working with one. He’s all about personal freedom, bringing retribution down on the wicked (even – especially – if they try to hide behind legal technicalities), collecting and using knowledge for good, and to hell with any laws that get in his way. To him, the Hellknights are the personification of everything wrong in the world. I’m actually planning to take Lore (Hellknights) later to represent his studying up on how better to oppose them once he’s done saving Breachill. As a reminder, Valk wanted nothing to do with the Armiger we just encountered up above and wasn’t going to be friendly with him any time soon. If he’d been a full Hellknight instead? Even odds on a fight breaking out.
Second, Hellknights have a brutal reputation basically everywhere. Like they get “The only reason we’re not running you out of town with pitchforks and torches is because we’re terrified you would kill us all and burn the town down” reactions most places. I know the organization isn’t explicitly LE, but their actions typically land right there, and they actually teach that any form of morality at all is a weakness. Check out the descriptions of the orders (links near the bottom of this article), and you can see what each one is about. A few goals are upholding tyranny (especially their homeland of Cheliax, which is LE with Asmodeus as the chief religion), supporting slavery, burning books, destroying savage (read: “non-Chelaxian”) culture, and stamping out free thought. I imagine the locals would react poorly to a Hellknight tromping around and even worse to anything suggesting a return of the local order, though that’s totally up to Rando. Certainly many places around Golarion would look on a Hellknight (and people working with one) as trouble.
I just think the intra-party strife and negative reactions from a lot of people might not be a lot of fun to deal with at the moment since I don’t think most of us made characters very compatible with a Hellknight’s worldview.
@Cortillaen, I understand your concerns!
You may be right, but if I may propose an alternate way of thinking of things, please consider:
From Alexandra’s point of view mob justice via lynchings and the like are far more dangerous than leaving justice in the hands of lawfully appointed officials. When one allows their need for revenge to fully consume them to the point where they will take justice into their own hands is that not every bit as evil as tyranny? I think it would make for some interesting RP and character growth and it doesn’t have to end in “My characters thrusts their blade into yours.” unless we want it to, which I don’t.
I guess I just like playing characters that are a bit “metal” because to me they seem a lot more stylish and cool but I’m certainly not the kind of player to harm other players at all.
Regarding overlap, I kind of feel at the moment we already have 3 physical combatants in the party. And if I’m being honest, we have enough overlap in skills already that I don’t feel like Shine really brings anything to the party that somebody else couldn’t do anyway.
@ocelot
If you are not enjoying playing Shine I fully support you switching to another character. I can have Rockie work on thievery. He won’t be as good as a rogue but he will get us by. So don’t think you have to keep playing shine just to be a trap and lock disarmer. Of the two characters you have posted I tend to lean towards Emilee <sp?> over Alexandra.
My objection to Alexandra stems from a common problem that occurs in groups. The Prisoner Question. Let me explain from Rockie’s Personal point of view.
All of you were surprised when I choose to bring the puppies out of the castle and hide them in the underbrush near the secret entrance. I flippantly said it was to allow Rando to have the choice of making them disappear if he felt they where a loose end he did not want to keep dealing with. I could have just as easily left them in the jail room where they where, left a pile of food for them and they had plenty of bones to chew on. And that was going to originally be what I did.
Until we ran into the Hellknight in the summoning room. That changed my plans. He said he was going to be roaming around looking for his heirloom ring. Given what I know of the Hellknights and their order, what would be his reaction be if he found a couple puppies and recognized them as Wargs? He would probably destroy them becuase they are “evil”. And then he would have investigated into why they were well tended I am sure, and of course their nest in the drawer is lined with Rockie’s cloak. An obviously gnome sized cloak. And where did he just see a gnome? Would he not then come looking for me to met out justice for taking care of “evil” creatures?
Would Alexandra?
And this is the prisoner problem. What happens to opponents that are too young to have done anything except be what they are or those that surrender to avoid certain death. Do you go ahead and kill them anyway and like you said in your counter example to Cort. Doesn’t that make you as “evil” as the people you are judging? And moral situations like this have been known to tear a group of players apart.
Like I said, if you are not enjoying playing Shine you have my full support to switch to another character. And if you decide on Alexandra I’ll live with it.
But Rockie will keep his distance and always have a escape plan ready. Because if you make a character with a specific background history, what is the point of playing against the archetype without a strong reason. And in the story you did, there was nothing there to provide a reason why I should give someone like her my full trust without looking over my shoulder to see if what I am about to do does not meet with her approval and moves me over to the adversary side of the ledger.
Mith
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Aww shucks Mith, this is a really, really nice thing to say 
Of all the arguments so far the prisoner example makes the most sense not to pursue the hell knight route. I would love to face off against a barbazu in single combat though. I’ve actually spent some time gaming (meta-gaming?) out that encounter and I’m convinced its actually more winnable than it first appears. Plus I just really love that picture of the young woman facing off against a monster with unflinching resolve.
But my team mates have spoken their concern, so no I won’t play as Alexandra!
I still like Emilie too but I might hold off on playing that character for another campaign once the advanced players guide comes in.
Of the alts I’ve come up with so far, I think I like Anna the best (silver dragon sorceress attorney-at-law). I think she would excel at both being a face (when needed) and blowing things up.
I’ve also noticed that rpgbot has finally published his guide to 2e rogues, so maybe there is something there that I can rethink with Shine.
My 2cp.
Everyone should play the character that they want to play. Period. With maybe the only caveats being evil characters (banned) and disruptive characters (like unfortunately this Hellknight concept).
The party doesn’t really “need” anything. And no one should feel that they absolutely have to have X covered for the party because the party is lacking it.
Pathfinder2e seems - so far - to be able to support many different non-traditional character concepts. I’ve read anecdotes about druids (without Goodberry) being the only heals in parties, and it works. I’ve read anecdotes of parties doing The Fall of Plaguestone without any martial characters and while there were lots of death (it’s a hard adventure), it was doable.
With very few exceptions*, any character created using the rules we have available is going to be viable. Sure there’s options that aren’t optimal but nothing I’ve seen could possibly gimp your character (like you could in Pathfinder1e.) I’ve joked about certain options being “noob-traps”, but there really aren’t any; yeah, some options are sub-optimal, but everything is viable.
A loved character is going to be (in general) a well played character and therefore is going to be of use to the party regardless if they don’t have skill X, feat Y, or party role Z.
Regarding the warg thing. I wanted to have it happen “organically” in game, but it’s such an aside thing and so outside the “normal” rules that I guess I should spill the beans. The writer of the module threw the warg puppies in there as a simple moral conundrum and left it in a sidebar for the DM to determine what was an appropriate outcome for their party.
Besides the whole nature vs nurture debate (which maybe doesn’t apply to creatures in a fantasy world), left to their own devices - assuming they survive - the warg pups will grow up to be intelligent NE creatures capable of speech. It’s up to the party to show them a better way - if the party so chooses. In consult with the brief sidebar of info provided in the module to allow the following:
- during the upcoming downtime activity between this module and the next, a character can train/teach a single warg pup and then proactively spend their next upcoming class feat to take the Ranger 1st level Animal Companion feat to allow them to use the warg pup as their companion, without having to take the Ranger Dedication feat first; if they wanted to take further feats to upgrade/use the warg pup better then they would have to take the Ranger Dedication feat and then the corresponding ranger feats using the normal archetype rules
- in the case of a ranger character, they could proactively spend their next upcoming (ranger) class feat to take Animal Companion for the warg pup and then about go about upgrading it in the future using the normal means of ranger feat acquisition (whether as a native ranger or via archetype feats)
- in the case of a druid character (or a character with the Druid Dedication feat), they could proactively spend their next upcoming class feat to get the Animal Companion feat and then go about upgrading it via druid feats using normal druid (or archetype) feat rules
- the warg pup would use the rules/stats for a wolf companion but would have increased intelligence, darkvision instead of low-light vision, and would speak up to two languages (taught by the character) besides Common; it would not have any of the extra warg abilities from the Bestiary
Yes that breaks the rules, but it’s a fun and flavourful addition that is unique to this particular campaign/module.
Speaking of downtime activities…
In one of the worst kept secret twists ever, the party may become the proud owners of Citadel Altaerin upon conclusion of the first module. There are downtime activities associated with the repair, maintenance, and administration of the Citadel with appropriate rules that - of course - are not outlined in this module but in the next. I’ll go about reading them, honest.
Some of y’all have downtime activities already planned for your character, but if you don’t, keep the above options in mind.
If no one is interested in the warg pup thing, then I’ll take @Mithinar’s hint and when y’all come out of the vaults next time, the pups will be gone.
-
- yes it’s still possible to deliberately make a broken character by choosing inappropriate stats for certain classes, skills, and feats but one would have to go out of their way to do it
Thank you @Rando, it is reassuring to know that there is some leeway in terms of creating the party and what it needs, etc.
Just to be clear, I realize the conundrum posed by this hellknight character and I will not be moving forward with her.
I kind of wish I had played Fall of Plaguestone as a one off prior to this as it might have allayed some of my class “locked-in syndrome” fears. Having a chance to play a one off to try different character concepts seems like a good thing when approaching a new system, so I am in the process of writing one for that purpose.
You know… we could treat this module as a one off before moving onto Extinction Curse in the summer. I reckon we will probably finish with this one around the same time the advanced players guide comes out 
If you want to get the cliff notes on the Castle downtime activities, Look in Uglybuggers thread here in VTT. He just posted a synopsis since his party just finished the module.
Mith
As to the puppies. Well Rockie is not delving in druid more than for spells. He is more following the track of Researcher becoming a Loremaster about a lot of things in his hope to avoid succumbing to the Bleeching.
So for him he will not take the option for an animal companion with them. If others want to that fine. My plan was to reseach in the town library if there is warg communities and where they are. And then plan to figure a way for me to get the puppies to that area and release them.
Mith