[Finished] PF2 - Forgotten Realms Heroic Romp (Thurs 8-11 EDT)

All kidding aside, I’m generally happy with what little I’ve experienced of the wizard class so far.

Much of my motivation was probably the wrong kind of motivation - basically wanting to prove that 2e wizards don’t suck! Moreover, I wanted to create a wizard that was truly a “universalist wizard” - solving problems in ways that don’t always involve raw firepower.

Here is a series of pictures showing me ignoring the alpha geeks on the paizo forums and naively making a wizard that doesn’t blast things and waking up to the reality of not blasting things:

I will say on the positive side that I did manage to find useful situations for all three of my spells during this excursion (mage armor, magic weapon, color spray). So I didn’t waste any spell slots which is great but the results in every case were a little underwhelming.

Last night I stayed up after the session and started reading wizard guides and I found a new guide, written last month, that really changed my thinking about this class.

So I’m thinking the wizard class is still good but its got a ton of trap options, and maybe the way to not make a trap build is to just lean into the blasting wizard trope.

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At first I read “trap options” as options for a wizard that sets traps, like physical traps like a rogue or someone with proficiency with snares (like a Kobold :smirk:) and I was trying to figure out in my head why there would be a trap building wizard build. Then I read the link to the wizard guide (well skimmed it really) and I see that it is referring to wizard builds and getting trapped into a bad build.

And lol at the meme reference! :rofl:

Speaking about resistance as mentioned earlier, I would like to take a moment to discuss damage resistance (DR) in PF 2e for those that might not be familiar with how it differs from D&D 5e…and the difference is pretty significant.

In D&D 5e DR just halves the damage taken from a source that the target is resistance to. In PRF 2e, DR is much more valuable to a PC and also much worse for the PC’s if enemies have damage resistance. Damage resistance in PF 2e is more like a resistance wall one has to get over; the damage resistance is a threshold that a PC has to do more damage than the threshold to do any damage at all. So if an enemy has a DR of 5, a PC will have to do more than 5 damage to do any damage at all.

I bring this up because I have noticed some battles where folks are scoring lots of hits on the enemy and happy about that, but then end up being disappointed when every attack does no damage. I’m not trying to call anyone out or criticize anyone’s play style, I just want to bring up some points that may help folks deal with DR or recognize it in a battle and adjust accordingly to get the most out of your character in a fight.

Watch your damage rolls in the chat in fights to see if a enemy has damage resistance and also watch others’ damage in the chat in fights, this way you will get an idea of what the DR threshold might be, or at least close enough to gauge whether your attacks are going to do any damage. Watching the damage chat of others’ attacks can also clue you in on what type(s) of damage the enemy is not resistant to or is vulnerable to in case you find your attacks are not being effective damage wies.

Alright it’s story problem math and formula time! Let’s take the rat and rat swarm fight that we are currently in; the rat swarms are consistent with D&D 5e in that they have DR, I think most if not all swarms in 5e and probably in PF 2e have DR. I was watching the combat chat closely once I finally got in the game and I’m guessing the DR is 5…ish. Once you think you have determined (or closely approximated ) the DR threshold look at the max damage you can do for the attack you want to use and decide how you want to gamble on doing damage or not. Say you are using a dagger and your damage bonus from stat is +2, your MAX damage is going to be 6 which would do 1 damage past the DR of the rat swarm if the DR is 5. Now look at in terms of percentages., to do 1 damage you are going to have to do 100% damage; anything less does nothing. Now say you are using a longsword and your damage bonus from stat is +1, your MAX damage is 10 so you need to do at least 60% damage to do 1 damage past the DR. In the case of the dagger wielder, it might be best to focus on targets without the DR and best for the longsword wielder to go after the targets with the DR. Of course you also factor in various class/ability/race/whatever variables that affect damage output for individual attacks to decide your odds on being able to damage an enemy with DR. And keep in mind that doing multiple attacks is not going to stack damage against the DR, the DR is figured for damage from each individual attack damage.

In my case I did not play smart as per the info above, I attacked the debuffed, stunned, blinded (which doesn’t mean shit) paralyzed etc rats and should have left those to others while I went to work on the rat swarms as I am a longsword melee attacker with spell damage I can thrown in there for an extra chance to do damage. My physical longsword attack is more likely to get around the rat swarm DR than any cantrip I can load into my weapon with Spellstrike. If I had any lvl 1 spells available to use with Spellstrike I could have a chance to do even more damage, but I uysed up all my slots and we haven’t had a sleep yet. But I was tired and irritated and not thinking all that straight and just wanted to kill rats I guess :smirk:

OK that all sounded shorter in my head. Have fun reading it, not reading it, skimming it whatever. I hope maybe it did some good for somebody maybe. Oh and Dr in Pathfinder is total cheese, it’s more like a quasi-pseudo mini-damage immunity wall especially against low lvl PC’s.

Come to think of it, rat swarms PF 2e are pretty deadly ass enemies for low lvl players what with the DR and the filth effect from getting hit and the swarm ability. Much much much worse than piddly rat swarms in D&D 5e.

Play what you enjoy and makes you happy Ocelot. So what if it isn’t what others deem is the only perfect path. It takes a lot more creativity to make what you have work than to become a one trick pony. Just because someone says the one trick pony is the only good pony, that doesn’t mean it will be a fun pony to ride long term.

I feel personally attacked. I never said I was a good one trick pony. :smirk:

:stuck_out_tongue: I never said anything about a Kobold while speaking to Ocelot

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Why don’t @ocelot and @Ryuken get together and play the three kobolds in the trench coat.

a) kobolds!
b) two characters for Ocelot so he can play the sorcerer and the wizard!

Win. Win. And an extra win for the third kobold!

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OK but I get to be on top.

At this point between this game and Tonight’s Saturday game, you and Ocelot might have to just become BFF’s and get a room together…

Mith

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Any chance we will see lore skills play a significant role in upcoming adventures? One of the reasons I picked elf was to make use of the various longevity ancestry feats which allow you to train a new skill everyday which I was going to use for lore skills to understand… lore… which, as I am told, is a big deal in the Forgotten Realms. :grin:

Heya all, a heads up that I just got my new PC build up and running after too long screwing with it. I am furiously downloading updates and when those ara caught up I will go straight installing Steam and Fantasy Grounds so hopefully I won’t be late.

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GOOD LUCK with the new pc RYU!

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Last night was a lot of fun. Eonwyn put her formidable intellect to use with a recall knowledge check. Still wish I had prepared burning hands but maybe that would’ve just spelled trouble getting close enough to use it.

I am thankful Mithinar didn’t run away after getting powered up with my magic weapon spell. In hindsight not the best strategy in my part. I really thought he’d be standing a couple more rounds.

Looking forward to level 3!!

Shhh…

The GM did 18 points of damage to each assassin vine, and started dropping blanket -4 to hits and damage on their attacks. And yet, it still was almost a TPK!

Those grab maneuvers from both the wolfie and the vines are sick! No MAP/attack roll and still get to do damage on action #2 and #3. Basic saving throw means the possibility of no damage or half damage, but those are slim chances.

I’ve said it time and again, the numbers in PF2 almost don’t mean anything. On the other hand, I have no idea how NPC abilities on paper will function in-game; things that look scary to me end up being trivial, things that don’t warrant a second glance almost TPK the party.

/shrug

Well it was the fortitude saves that got me again this week. Even with it being my Best save, First the Dire Wolf from last week and then the plant assassins from this week, Fate had it in for him. And I did get to use it once to take out the one that had not had me grappled.

Mith

I feel like PF2 is tuned very strongly to average results but there are a lot of tail events (like repeatedly failing a fort save that, on paper, should be easy) that can completely wreck a party and which the rules don’t really account for.

It’s still a fun game though!

Maybe hand out hero points to everyone as a fix?

Apologies for my saltiness regarding the thing with the “breaking free” and the MAP and all that. I was just in a bad mood and my brain didn’t want to process it all correctly I was looking at the +7’s for each roll I made and subtracting the MAP penalty from that and not adjusting the math accordingly.

@ChacoBlue sorry for my coarse comment, getting destroyed by living vines in almost one turn and then spending an entire turn not being able to break free just suddenly brought that scene from the Evil Dead to mind and out came the words.

Assassin Vines in PF 2e are waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than the D&D 5e versions. I am not too keen on the “break free” part being considered attacks. That just seems like a cheap mechanic, but it is what it is.

Well, I was very happy with how Eonwyn did last night (poor attack rolls not withstanding).

I am still pondering other wizardly alteratives though.

Right now I have the Universalist school which gives fewer overall spells but more uses of drain bonded item. So you get fewer spells memorized but more options for spontaneous casting. There are some interesting feats like bond conservation at higher levels that give you more “uses” of existing spell slots at lower levels.

But I’m of the mind that spell blending on a specialist wizard might be the way to go because then you can maximize the number of high level spells you get - the kind of spells that really make a difference in combat.

For example, at fifth level (when you first get 3rd level spells like fireball) I could theoretically have 8 castings of third level spells (and 9 at sixth level).

That’s kind of insane. Of course, with that loadout, I wouldn’t have any 1st or 2nd level spells for utility.

On the other hand, I feel like the fight with the assassin vines really drives home the importance of using the right tools for the job. So maybe you don’t always need the highest level spell if you have the right damage type.

Then there’s the whole problem of - well if I’m going to blast things might as well blast them right. So might as well pick up the sorcerer dedication and get dangerous sorcery. In for a penny, in for a pound.

But then that costs 14 charisma which means I would have to give up my wisdom bonus which I need to improve my initiative. On the other hand though, I had always imagined Eonwyn as sort of a highly intelligent “space cadet”. So maybe a low wisdom would make sense from a RP standpoint.

Or maybe it would make sense to reroll with a half elf wizard and then I could pick up the sorcerer dedication at 9th level without having to invest in charisma.

Ugh so many decisions! :laughing:

@Rando, so far we know that the dark elves of this campaign are sort of a “proto-drow”. I can’t remember what their name was now.

How exactly does a “cavern elf” heritage fit into the forgotten realms? Are the drow? Do they look like drow? Are they off limits to create?

Also, I think I want to rename my character from Eonwyn to Eonyn (ryhmes with Eowyn from LOTR).