I’ll have the server up at 8 and’ll be in Discord.
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Following three December dates:
- Dec 12
- Dec 19
- Dec 26
I’m good for the first two, but won’t be here for Dec 26 (Boxing day in Canada). What about y’all?
Same here, I can do the 12th and 19th, but not the 26th (I’ll be out of town until late that evening).
12th and 19th are Good for me as well.
Mith
I can do the whole month.
@Rando Any chance I could use the LG Champion reaction instead of the CG one? Retributive Strike is just such a perfect match for a follower of Calistria, the goddess of vengeance. The problem is Retributive Strike is the LG Champion reaction, and a good Champion of Calistria can only be CG. The CG Champion reaction is Liberating Step, which doesn’t really fit a Calistrian very well; it seems to have been made primarily for someone following Cayden Cailean.
Well…
I don’t see why that’s not possible. 
But, without getting too spoilerific, it’s possible that in future modules of the adventure path, Liberating Step is going to both more useful and more flavourful lorewise… 
I can do the whole month too!
So, uhm… I know we’re now 3 game sessions into the campaign, and I feel shy/embaressed about asking this, but would it be acceptable at this point to change my character? I would sort of like to go back to good ole’ Alys. I would like to roll her as a thief racket rogue however. So somewhat similar to Shine but very two weapon melee focused but not as much on stealth. Last session I realized I really like the dex damage bonus for thief racket rogues.
So here comes the awkward part. I came up with a build that takes a Ranger dedication via ancestry feat later on plus… uhm… the Red Mantis dedication at level 2. 
I’m wondering, is this idea DOA? I’m bracing myself for Rando’s voice of doom, hehe. Perhaps many voices (or at least groans) of doom from my fellow players too 
(I understand if so.)
I personally don’t have a problem with it. We are at a point that we could in theory take the halfling back to town. And happen upon a late comer to the Call of heroes meetings. And then Shine could be working on “something else” and have to leave.
Mith
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Psh, early sessions are made for realizing you want to play a different concept and retconning or swapping your character. 
One note going forward: don’t forget the retraining rules in this are pretty expansive. If it’s not an ability score, your background, your class, your ancestry/heritage, or one of a tiny number of ancestry feats, you can swap it out with some downtime.
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This exactly. Best laid plans and all that…
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I guess I am ok with you changing your character Ocelot, but good thing you are getting that in before we clear the castle or your new toon would get no private room, be sleeping in the servant’s quarters.
I keeeed I keeeeed, I am have no problem with it and you shouldn’t feel shy/embarrassed to ask, it’s all good.
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Okay, I thought about this a lot and did some more theorycrafting/spreadsheeting.
Here is Alys 2.0:
Mechanics Concept - Agile two weapon fighter with some stealthiness
Roleplaying Concept - An exiled mantis scion, seeking redemption
Key:
- = level up this skill
_c = received from class
b = received from background
a = received from ancestry
d = received from dedication
g = general feat
Name: Alys
Ancestry: Human (Half Elf)
Class: Fighter
Background: Mantis Scion
Alignment: Neutral Good
Religion: Sarenrae
Str: 18, Dex: 16, Con: 12, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Cha: 10
Starting Skills:
Stealth*(b), Assassin Lore(b), Acrobatics*, Athletics*(_c), Medicine, Society
Starting Skill Feats: Assurance - Stealth
Feat Progression:
- Double Slice, Unconventional Weaponry(a)
- Rogue Dedication (d)
- Incredible Initiative (g)
- Twin Parry
- Nimble Elf (a)
- Sneak Attacker (d)
- Fleet (g)
- Basic Trickery (d) -> Unbalancing Blow
- Blind Fight (_c), ?? (a)
- Agile Grace
- Toughness (g)
- Twin Riposte
- ?? (a)
- Two Weapon Flurry
- Stance Savant (_c), ?? (g)
- Graceful Poise
- Savage Critical
- ?? (g)
- Weapon Supremacy
@Rando May I log on to the server a little early tomorrow to fill out her character sheet?
Here it comes as usual, but before the commentary, I’m curious what weapon are you picking up with Unconventional Weaponry? Okay, commentary ahoy! (as usual, I’m just mostly noting interactions and such, so if you like something I seem to rag on, go for it)
Sneak Attacker - Keep in mind it is only ever an extra 1d6, and you won’t have any of the Rogue tools to trigger it more regularly.
Unbalancing Blow - Is there a particular reason you want this? It only triggers on a crit, and the benefit isn’t too hard to replicate with positioning. Even with Sneak Attacker, I don’t think this will help enough to be worth your 8th-level feat.
Blind-Fight - This is a class feat, but you have it on an odd level?
Twin Riposte - Keep in mind this takes your Reaction, and Fighter also gives you Attack of Opportunity. It also only triggers when an enemy critically fails to hit you. If you’re going to use this, consider upgrading with Twinned Defense instead of Graceful Poise (both stances) to trigger it more often, and maybe add Improved Twin Riposte if you can fit it in.
Two-Weapon Flurry - Note this has the Press trait. This means you can only use it while under MAP. It’s still a solid upgrade to action economy if you think you will usually spend 2 actions attacking, but you can’t use it without making that other attack first (unlike a Monk’s Flurry of Blows or Ranger’s Twin Takedown).
Graceful Poise - Keep in mind this requires you to use at least 3 actions attacking to get the benefit.
Savage Critical - lv18 feat, not 17.
Weapon Supremacy - lv20 feat, not 19; and note the extra action cannot be used for Double Slice or Two-Weapon Flurry. Only a plain Strike is valid.
There aren’t a lot of great options for your concept for those 6th and 8th level slots if you decide against Sneak Attacker and Unbalancing Blow. Lunge isn’t amazing, but sometimes you just really need that extra 5ft without moving. If you want to stick with an archetype, maybe consider things like Trap Finder (not going to be amazing on a Fighter, but extra chances to spot traps is never bad) or Quick Draw (drawing each of your weapons is its own action, so this will help every time you start with them sheathed) instead of Unbalancing Blow, at least. Sneak Attacker won’t give a whole lot, but it’ll at least be an extra d6 roughly half the time. I wish we had a more reliable way to trigger it, but you can’t really afford to grab Gang Up since it would take a lv12+ slot and require a 4th feat in the archetype.
Hmm… the website seems to have reformatted my level 18 and 20 feats to 17 and 19. Might have something to do with all my special character notation. Good eyes though!
I believe graceful poise’s action economy benefits from Stance Savant as part of my daily combat flexibility feats.
Two Weapon Flurry will be her follow up from Double Slice when fighting a boss.
I’m not a huge fan of Twin Riposte here either but I wanted to something to take advantage of two weapon fighting. I feel like Graceful Poise’s benefit on MAP is too good to pass up.
Blind Fight is another feat Alys can take as part of her daily preparations.
Unbalancing blow will be useful in mitigating MAP and improving crits. Granted the effect is marginal, but I’ve noticed there are very few sources of stacking damage in the rules, and both this feat and sneak attacker can provide it.
I have an alternate rogue build for this character too! But she takes twin feint at level 1 and does not get really good with sawtooth sabers until level 13 when she picks up unconventional expertise!!
PS - Cort, you’re commentary is absolutely, always welcome and appreciated!! 
PPS - I don’t have the rogue build written down on my computer at the moment, but she would take ranger dedication at level 2 and twin takedown at level 4.
The numbering is probably getting messed up because you’re starting lines with "1. " or the like and the markdown processor interprets those as an ordered list and applies its own numbering regardless of the numbers you use. You could have 1s for all of them and get the same effect. I assume you have a level in there somewhere that you skipped because you aren’t taking anything important there; just add that level back into your list (with a - or something after it) to fix the numbering.
Unbalancing Blow is one of the few feats I consider “bad”, and that’s just because it both only triggers a small amount of the time and only provides a benefit you can get through flanking. Anyone making attack rolls should always be trying to flank if they can (I may not simply because of the positioning needed for my defensive reactions) since the -2 to enemy AC is huge. So Unbalancing Blow is useless if you can flank or get Flat Footed from another source, and it will only trigger 5% of the time on bosses, 5-15% on tough enemies, and 15-25% on mooks that get destroyed anyway.
Also, just to clarify (I’m not sure if you’re saying this or just saying Unbalancing Blow can help trigger Sneak Attacker), Unbalancing Blow does not add any damage to an attack. It just adds a “the enemy is Flat Footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn” rider to your crits.
Graceful Poise does give you a nice MAP benefit, but it’s a little deceptive: It effectively grants a +4 to your next attack (+5 if you use a non-Agile weapon). But only to that one attack since the next attack will be at full MAP either way. Also, you only get the benefit if you can spend 3 actions (your whole turn unless you are hasted) attacking. If you’re going to use Twin Riposte, I feel like Twinned Defense’s improvement to action economy / AC (especially if you can afford to fit in Improved Twin Riposte) gives you a more consistent benefit of nearly as good offense (thanks to the ripostes; don’t forget off-turn attacks are MAP-free too) and better defense (you basically have a shield always raised for no action cost; or a buckler if you’re using paired sabers since they don’t have Parry).
Regarding Rogue, also note that Weapon Tricks (grants the crit specialization effect) specifies it only works with simple weapons and the handful of extras Rogue get proficiency in, so it won’t work with Sawtooth Sabers. Incidentally, the crit specialization effect for the sabers is making the enemy Flat Footed to every until the start of your next turn. Still, it’s a fairly minor benefit you’d miss out on, and don’t forget we’ve got both Huulm and Valk walking around with 5x5 zones of “enemies are always Flat Footed to any Rogue with Gang Up” to capitalize on later. 
Yep, there is always Gang Up on Rogue. It is an exceptionally good feat, I won’t argue against it.
The thing I can’t quite come to terms with though is that with Gang Up, there is no point in positioning/flanking. And if there’s no point in positioning/flanking then that means my rogue would be playing more like a fighter. And if my rogue is playing more like a fighter then why not just roll a fighter? I may be completely wrong, that’s just how it feels to me.
I also feel that the argument in favor of Gang Up is actually also in favor of Unbalancing blow as well. They both do the same thing except Gang Up is perhaps more consistent. But if one should be flanking instead why take either of these feats? I haven’t added it to the spreadsheet, but I suspect Unbalancing Blow will proc with fighter more often than one might think due to no MAP on double strike with graceful poise, the fighter weapon proficiency, and (eventually) savage criticals. Essentially it creates a virtuous (vicious?) cycle with fighter criticals. So no, by it self it doesn’t add more damage, but it makes you more likely to crit in your next turn. Although I suppose if one has the sword critical specialization then maybe its not useful afterall.
I may be wrong about all of this! I’m still learning!!
With rogue, I would take the weapon proficiency general feat before taking unconventional weaponry. So… that would be level 5 at the earliest with a half elf.
PS - That is a really good point about the critical specialization issue with Rogues!!
Well that was quite a cliff hanger this evening. I don’t envy Rockie right now. Note to self: flanking can be quite perilous. Reconsider gang up 
I had one other idea though. Alys could take Trap Finder instead of Unbalancing Blow for
the rogue dedication basic trickery feat.