@Cortillaen, yep those are all really good points. The party could definitely benefit from additional skill utility and scouting that the rogue provides. And I definitely do like the rogue (thematically and mechanically). Most of the fighter feats that I really like don’t come into play until level 10 (e.g. agile grace and flurry).
I haven’t read up on the ranger yet so mechanically it may be better for what I’d like to do although thematically its not quite what I’m looking for. Regardless I’ll give it a good read this evening after work. Will ponder this some more today and tonight. Thank you for discussing and being patient with my class selection hyper-perfectionism
Which of the mechanical weapon traits of the sawtooth saber are you most interested in? Is there not another weapon that fits what you need?
I don’t have a problem with the mechanics, it’s the lore aspect of it. The sawtooth saber is almost 100% exclusively associated with a particular organization: the Red Mantis Assassins. For a non-REAssassin to wield one would be akin to a melee combatant in the Star Wars universe walking around with a lightsaber and not being a Jedi Knight. Everyone is going to assume things about your character if you walk around carrying one of those sabers - let alone two. And those assumptions are not going to be positive.
Sawtooth sabers are the only weapon (so far) in Pathfinder that have the twin trait. Getting a circumstance bonus of +1 dmg on secondary (or tertiary) melee attacks in a round - most of which are going to miss - is nice I guess but isn’t worth the hassle of being attacked on sight everywhere you go.
For the agile trait, you only need it on one weapon - the offhand weapon - to get the mechanical benefits of the reduced multiple attack penalty. In the unlikely event that you’ll actually use your third action in a round to perform a tertiary attack, well you are not going to hit with that attack anyway regardless of agile or not.
There are tons of weapons with the finesse trait.
I would posit that the classic rapier + main-gauche pairing is going to give you mechanically more options, look equally as cool, and not get you attacked on sight in civilized society.
Most people you run into aren’t going to know what those two sawtooth sabres mean. But enough will - especially potentially dangerous people - that it could lead to problems.
A child of a Red Mantis Assassin who has taken up their parents weapons, or even an ex-initiate of the order running from them could be a really cool character concept. Be prepared for consequences however, .i.e being hunted by a world-spanning order of LE assassins who worship Achaekek - He Who Walks in Blood - the god of assassins and divine punishment, as well as being attacked on sight by those who know what two sawtooth sabres mean and assume you are a Red Mantis Assassin.
Be mindful that those twin sawtooth sabres mean more than just the mechanics in Golarion - probably more so than any other weapon(s), with the possible exception of an Aldori Dueling Sword.
The only other comparisons I can think of is the Star Wars lightsaber comparison, or maybe playing in an Asian themed campaign and your character is wearing the daisho (katana + wakizashi) which beyond the mechanics of those two individual weapons means the wearer is claiming to be part of a particular social class when pairing the weapons (and claiming knowledge on how to use them.)
I’ll just throw this out as well: if you like the concept of a dual-wielder using flurries of attacks, Ranger as the base is probably what you want. Their Flurry edge is amazing combined with Twin Takedown for 4 attacks at -0/-2/-4/-4 (and even better in the last few levels). They also get some Rogue-y features with better HP.
As for backgrounds, you don’t have to pick a background from the Age of Ashes Players Guide. There’s more backgrounds available in the Core Rulebook as well a the Lost Omens World Guide. It’s just the ones in the AoA guide give immediate hooks for why the character is there at the beginning of the adventure.
Considering all the discussion, would anyone want to try to get on voice this afternoon/evening and talk things over? It’d make some of the back and forth a lot quicker and maybe help us roll into the game tomorrow a little easier. I’ll be around from about 5:30 to 10pm (CST) if anyone wants to have a chat.
@Cortillaen I was going to go with Haunting Vision as my background as I’m having a hard time fitting the other Age of Ashes backgrounds to my Monk.
I thought about Truthseeker, but I can’t really come up with a backstory scenario that fits my Monk aside from a twist on the Truthseeker. To make Truthseeker fit my Monk, I would say he is seeking his inner truth, seeking balance and the ‘truth’ (in a sense) of his path/destiny/fate. It’s just that the Deception and Political Lore skills you get with Truthseeker don’t really fit my monk at all.
I contemplated the Out of Towner background, but the fixed Con or Int ability boost doesn’t fit for my monk and being a half-orc the ancestry lore skills you can pick from for Out of Towner don’t really fit my monk either.
Haunting Vision works the best with my monk as I can fit into the backstory easier than the other backgrounds.
@Rando. I understand your concerns and they are totally fair.
I am imagining that Alys is the daughter of a former quartermaster for the pathfinder society. Somebody who had traveled much of the world and who was very familiar with many exotic weapon types and thus that is how Alys developed an interest in this peculiar weapon. That is also how she got her background as a local scion. Her parents ultimately retired in Breechill and opened a smithy/weapons shop.
As to the being hunted by actual Red Mantis Assassins. I think it would be an interesting roleplaying opportunity but there is some evidence to suggest they would be more or less “cool” with it. Here is what the wiki has to say:
They do not seem to mind that their distinctive weapons have made their way into the general public, as it can only serve to enhance their renown. They do seem to hold low opinions of anyone who wields the sawtooth sabre incorrectly or poorly, as numerous such individuals have mysteriously ended up with the throats slit.
Given that (this version of) Alys is a fighter who takes her fighting skills seriously, I’m inclined to think that the Red Mantis would be okay with it provided that she doesn’t disrespect their organization otherwise (like try to pass herself off as an actual red mantis assassin).
Anyway, that’s my perspective. Happy to let it go and roll up something else if its going to be problematic.
It’s (stupidly in my not so humble opinion) in the Core Rulebook. I’m not banning or disallowing anything in that book. There’s nothing in the book that says a player can not use that weapon. Feel free.
That being said…
There’s two weapons in all of Pathfinder/Golarion that are mechanically superior to all other weapons: Sawtooth Sabre and Aldori Dueling Sword. Even if one pays the feat tax to get these advanced uncommon weapons they are still mechanically superior to all the other advanced uncommon weapons. One of the ways they are “balanced” is because of the fluff/lore surrounding them. I will be using that. You may or may not encounter Red Mantis Assassins, or those who have fought Red Mantis Assassins, who upon seeing someone wielding sawtooth sabres assume the wielder is a Red Mantis Assassin and treat them accordingly.
Seems like there’s still a lot of character talk going on. I admit I’m not the most prepared for tomorrow and would not be adverse to making it session 0.5 for continued character creation/discussion.
I’d be fine with it being 0.5 myself. I will need to work up my new concept more. About all I figured out is what goddess I want to follow and a general target of what I would like my stats to wind up around. I haven’t worked out how to get there yet or what ancestry and background I can do. So far my background leanings will either be Returning Descendant or Hellknight Historian as I think that would tie in with the goddess I want to go with.
You can also check out the backgrounds from the Lost Omens World Guide I’ll have loaded tomorrow. You don’t have to use one from AoA if they’re not working for you.
The Aldori Dueling Sword is in the Lost Omens World Guide (as the damn sawtooth sabre should have been). It’s the weapon of choice of the Sword Lords of Brevoy and the Aldori Duelists specifically of that kingdom. The Aldori Duelist archetype is based on the use of said weapon (they do not dual wield).
Aldori Dueling Sword
Uncommon, Finesse, Versatile (P)
Price 20 gp
Usage held in 1 hand; Bulk 1
An Aldori dueling sword is a slim, single-bladed dueling sword with a slight curve and a sharp, reinforced point. It deals 1d8 slashing damage. An aldori dueling sword is an advanced one-handed melee weapon in the sword weapon group.
Essentially it’s a finessable longsword.
Unlike the sawtooth’s, you won’t be attacked on sight by people just for carrying one. But those in the know will assume you know how to and are willing to use it if you have one at your side and you can expect to be challenged to a lot of duels.
Oh, and I also have the Lost Omens Character Guide in PDF form but no corresponding FG module. It has a lot of new options for the existing archetypes; ancestry feats, backgrounds, etc.
I don’t think I’ll have time tomorrow to enter that stuff into a module by hand.
Oh, and no one has posted any pics of their characters that I can turn into tokens. Just post a link or embed here, either/or. We’ll be using the round image based tokens to match those of the Age of Ashes (modules), instead of miniature based tokens we may have used in the past.
Regarding session 0.5 or not - I’m fine either way. I could benefit from further class/party composition discussion but I can also have something ready beforehand if needed. Have a feeling I’ll be going with short swords for two weapon fighting (regardless of the weapon, I like symmetry). Not sure if Rogue or Fighter.
