Open PvP and Griefing?

Like many Oldtimers, I’ve been waiting for Pantheon. Sadly, it seems that the wait is going to be quite a bit longer.

I’ve been trying to catch up with Ashes recently with the threat of Alpha 2 coming soonish. I’ve watched the Devs insist that griefing will not be a problem, and how the colored flag system will prevent that.

However, I’ve been reading the forums and it seems that many players hate the flag system because it ‘prevents’ them from griefing or simply don’t care about the flags because they seem to only want to play in order to grief other players. Some of them can’t wait to become the most notorious serial killers on the server, while others can’t wait to form gangs that make the Jets and the Sharks mild by comparison.

Many of the players in waiting remind me of the psychiatrist scene at Whitehall St. Induction Center – Alice’s Restaurant for you younger Oldtimers.

It seems to me that the idea of open world PvP and no-griefing are almost contradictory, like asserting A and -A at the same time. I should probably post the fact that I’m an old Hippy/Scholastic in my bio page.

Finally, a question for y’all.

Do you think that the stated intention of the Dev’s can work?

Good morning PTook, I don’t play many of those types of games for that very reason. But as to your question, I do not see why open world pvp, with some sort of prevention check box in the players’ options when enabled, would not work. This method could prevent someone else from griefing them directly, if implemented correctly.

WoW has this setup and it works quite well. But of course WoW has dedicated pvp/pve servers so folks can choose which environment that want to work with. Although they have implemented a Flag system so folks who wish to fight each other can do so. But they have also enabled what is called a “War Mode” whereby the player can enable this in their character/talent screen which effectively throws them into a different phase from the normal server mode where a free-for-all pvp is available.

If some players want to grief those who do not wish to be involved in pvp, and there is a decent flag option in place that prevents direct pvp, they still can grief players anyway, just not directly. All they have to do is destroy the environmental elements those pve players are questing for. Although NPCs can be set to immune, that would not stop the destruction of say, the pigs, or bushes, iron nodes, or other quest nodes pve’ers are after.

But it all depends upon the strength of the flag option provided. I sincerely hope that game offers up different servers so players can choose a pve server rather than a pvp server. That would actually be the best option over all.

I actually knew a Lyn who had a pottery shop back in my crafting days. If that’s you, Hi from forty years ago. If it’s not you Hi anyway.
All servers are to be PvX, no PvP or PvE separate servers. There are no “bug off” flags available for players. Everyone is fair game.
The flags suggest mounting penalties for griefers, however true griefers don’t seem to care. They only seem to care about harassing other players. That is why I’m wondering if the Dev’s design for both ‘no limits’ and no griefing can work.

I’m not in the game though, based on your quoted portion, it appears to be working if griefers, “…hate the flag system because it prevents them from griefing…”.

As for crowd funded games, w/o the Big company return on investment, crowdfunded games lack the whip to keep cracking. This is why we’re still in ALPHA ONE since the game production began in 2017 with developer expectations to release by end 2019, 2020… before they rescinded their projected release date(s).
Without a corporate operation committed to public share holders, the whip for return on investment does not exist thus, crowdfunding stretches on and on into newer digital/video upgrades. Granted… few(er) bugs (hopefully).

If crowdfunding had a refund % if failure to complete it’s task by a projected start date and further % as it drags on, we would see a bit of a public flogging if morale does not increase (humor). We WOULD see more realistic intent and a press to meet defined objectives set by those seeking OUR $$$.

I digress, for now, I am looking forward to Ashes of Creation. Hopefully they break free of ALPHA ONE at some near point and the catalyst proceeds towards a quick(er) TWO, Beta One, Two… blh, blah, blah. Until Presented ideas are held to some timeline, fleecing will continue as pipe dreams continue with true intentions though failed follow through.

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Hey there PTook, I had my own studio/gallery back starting in 2000 in Ohio. About 2 years after I graduated from NY College of Ceramics at Alfred with my BFA in ceramic art. Was fairly successful until the mid-late 2000’s when the economy took a nosedive. Art is usually the first thing folks stop buying when that happens.

However, I’ve run into several other Lyns (with varying spellings) over those years when I went to festivals and workshops. Its possible you might have run in to me at something like that. I did meet a ton of people in the ceramic world back then. But I did not have a “pottery shop” per se so it probably was not me. Always happy to meet a fellow crafter of the arts. :grin:

If there is open PvP, there is griefing.

Always has been, always is, always will be.

Then, when everyone who can be griefed gives up and quits, the game gets redone as pve with pvp available - or fails completely.

Look at the number of games that ‘say’ they are going to be open world pvp, then shortly after release TRY and change all their code to be pve - and turn out poorly because the code and the framework wasn’t written to be pve. (And usually no interesting lore to drive the pve.)

That’s why I don’t bother with pvp games. I don’t like being griefed and I know they will not last.

“PvP” will exist fine as first person shooters. Games with part time pvp like arenas, battlegrounds, or scheduled 'wars do okay.

But open world, persistent MMO, Nah. People, at best, play them ‘part time’ - treating them like first person shooters.

Ganking and griefing ARE PvP - if they can’t be done, those that ‘say’ they want pvp lose interest. Games cannot exist without interest.

The people who only want to play to grief will burn out quick. Steven has said it will take the average player 2-3 months playing an average of 4 hours a day to reach max level. That’s a lot of dedication just to gank a few players and then have to grind for gear again after dropping all your gear due to getting killed while red.

Will you get ganked in Ashes if you play? Yes. Will it be anywhere close to as often as some people try to make it? Absolutely not. Even in games with less death penalties ganking really doesn’t happen often unless you’re trying to grind in “the best spot”

and with Ashes the “best spot” will never be the same between any servers as all servers will grow differently due to the node system and population being unique to each server. The biggest problem i see is if any server is low enough population to not adapt and change its node system then the “best spots” will be found and farmed and potential griefing could increase due to that specific situation. This is why the spot testing and code shakedowns for Ashes are so vital to making it a success. As long as the devs can adapt and make changes that better the game and are willing to make the changes that dedicated players want it should succeed.

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I find a potential for monopolistic population boom and crash. Dependent on organization allegiance, i.e. old school Goonsquad (EVE) what developer counter is to gang mentality? Once the gang owns the area are they countered with enough game environment/element to counter a domination setting?